Life & Times on KCET

Transcript

May 19, 2003

>> LYNCHINGS ARE AN UGLY CHAPTER IN AMERICAN HISTORY ASSOCIATED MAINLY WITH THE SOUTH, BUT IN FACT SCORES OF LYNCHINGS ALSO TOOK PLACE IN CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> IN THE MID-1800'S, OVER A SPAN OF ONLY FOUR YEARS, TWO HUNDRED PEOPLE WERE LYNCHED IN CALIFORNIA. NOW ARTISTS SKETCHED THESE PUBLIC EVENTS AND THE VICTIMS INCLUDED CHINESE AND NATIVE-AMERICANS AS WELL AS BLACKS. WHILE THE INCIDENTS GREATLY DIMINISHED, THE LAST RECORDED LYNCHING IN CALIFORNIA TOOK PLACE HERE AS LATE AS 1947.

JESS>> KEN GONZALES-DAY, A PROFESSOR AT SCRIPPS COLLEGE IN CLAREMONT, IS COMPILING THIS PART OF CALIFORNIA'S DARK HISTORY FOR AN UPCOMING BOOK. HE JOINS US NOW TO TELL US ABOUT HIS WORK. AS AN ART PROFESSOR, THIS IS A RATHER STRANGE TASK TO TAKE ON, ISN'T IT?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT. IT IS. I TEACH PHOTOGRAPHY AND SO I WAS DOING SOME RESEARCH ON EARLY IMAGES OF LATINOS IN CALIFORNIA, 1850 TO 1900, WHEN I CAME ACROSS SOME OF THESE IMAGES AND STARTED REALIZING THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS HISTORY AND COULDN'T FIND ANY WRITTEN RECORDS OR HISTORIES OF IT, SO WE SLOWLY KIND OF MOVED INTO THIS VERY EXPANSIVE HISTORY.

VAL>> SO NOW YOU'RE PUTTING TOGETHER NOT JUST THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND THE SKETCHES, BUT YOU'RE ALSO COMPILING INFORMATION. HOW BAD WAS LYNCHING AND WHY WAS IT BAD AT TIMES AND NOT SO BAD AT OTHER TIMES?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> I DO HAVE TO CORRECT YOU JUST SLIGHTLY.

VAL>> SURE.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> IT WAS ACTUALLY 220 TOTAL FROM 1850. I BEGAN WITH THE BEGINNING OF STATEHOOD FIGURING THAT LEGALLY THAT'S WHEN THERE WAS A LEGAL SYSTEM AND A JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

JESS>> BUT THE SHOCKING THING IS THE FACT THAT THE LAST ONE OCCURRED IN 1947.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT. BUT THEY CERTAINLY DECLINED AFTER 1900, WHEREAS ON THE EAST COAST, THEY ACTUALLY BEGAN TO INCREASE TOWARD THE 1890'S AND 1900 AS THEY BECAME MORE OF A SPECTACLE FOR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH. IN CALIFORNIA, THEY DECLINED, BUT THE LAST SEVERAL ARE VERY LARGE, OVER TWO THOUSAND PEOPLE.

VAL>> BUT THERE WERE A LOT MAINLY BECAUSE WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE A JUSTICE SYSTEM? IT WAS JUST VIGILANTE JUSTICE AND IT WAS THEIR ONLY WAY OF PUNISHING --

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> -- WELL, THIS IS ONE OF THE MYTHS THAT I SORT OF WANTED TO TAKE ON BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I READ REPEATEDLY IN VARIOUS HISTORICAL TEXTS, THAT THERE WAS NO LAW, THERE WERE NO SHERIFFS, THERE WAS NO LEGAL SYSTEM, BUT IN FACT THERE WAS. PRACTICALLY FROM THE MINUTE CALIFORNIA BECOMES A STATE, THERE'S A SUPREME COURT, THERE'S A JUDICIAL SYSTEM, THERE ARE COUNTY SEATS AND THERE IS A WHOLE SERIES OF LEGAL PROCEDURES. IN FACT, IN 1852 AND 1851, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE PROSECUTED, GIVEN LIFE SENTENCES AND GO THROUGH THE REGULAR LEGAL SYSTEM.

VAL>> SO THE LYNCHINGS WERE ILLEGAL?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> SO THE LYNCHINGS WERE WHAT WE CALL EXTRA LEGAL OR SUMMARY JUSTICE.

JESS>> WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT TURNING A BLIND EYE?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT. FOR THE MOST PART OR OCCASIONALLY, IN ONE CASE IN LOS ANGELES, THE CITY'S MAYOR RESIGNED SO THAT HE COULD LEAD THE LYNCHING COMMITTEE AND THEN WAS RE-ELECTED THE FOLLOWING ELECTION.

VAL>> WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT WAS IN THE 1860'S.

VAL>> UNBELIEVABLE.

JESS>> WHAT PROMPTED ARTISTS TO SKETCH AND PAINT THESE SCENES?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> WELL, I'VE BEEN COLLECTING THE PHOTOGRAPHS, ETCHINGS, DRAWINGS, ANYTHING THAT RELATES TO THIS HISTORY AND PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT DEAL WITH CALIFORNIA.

JESS>> INCLUDING WOMEN, APPARENTLY.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT. ONE OF THE FIRST CASES IS JUANITA, OR GUISEPPE. THERE'S SOME DEBATE ON HER NAME. BUT IT WAS A LYNCHING JULY 14, 1851.

JESS>> AND HER CRIME?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> HER CRIME WAS -- THERE IS SOME DEBATE OVER IT, BUT A MAN CAME TO VISIT HER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, BROKE DOWN HER DOOR AND THEN LEFT. THE NEXT MORNING, HE CAME BACK AND SHE STABBED HIM.

VAL>> SO IT WAS A MURDER OR WHATEVER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN SELF DEFENSE, BUT --

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> RIGHT.

VAL>> BUT WHY WERE ARTISTS SO INTERESTED IN THIS THAT THEY WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO DRAW IT?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> WELL, IN THE EARLY DAYS, THEY WERE DONE MOSTLY FOR NEWSPAPERS AND PUBLICATIONS, SO THEY'RE REALLY INFORMATION.

JESS>> LIKE THE COURTROOM SKETCH WE OCCASIONALLY SEE TODAY.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT. BUT IN THE LATER ONES AFTER 1880, THEY WERE ACTUALLY PHOTOGRAPHED AND SOLD AS POSTCARDS SO THAT THERE IS A VERY GRIM SORT OF MODIFICATION OF THEM.

VAL>> CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THIS ONE?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THIS IS THE 1856 DOUBLE-LYNCHING IN SAN FRANCISCO WHERE THE VIGILANTES DIRECTED THEMSELVES. THEY HAD MILITARY FORCES, THEY HAD GUNS AND THOSE ARE THERE OFFICES. THEY ACTUALLY HUNG THEM OUT OF THE WINDOWS.

VAL>> SO THAT WAS IN SAN FRANCISCO. NOW WE SHOULD SAY THAT YOU DO HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS. WE CHOSE NOT TO SHOW THEM HERE BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THEY'D BE A LITTLE BIT TOO GRIM, BUT THERE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THESE EVENTS.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JESS>> THE SKETCHES ARE GRIM ENOUGH.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT. FOR ME, THE IMPORTANT PART OF THE HISTORY WAS THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN CALIFORNIA, WHICH SURPRISED ME. THERE'S ACTUALLY ONLY EIGHT CASES OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

JESS>> THE LARGEST NUMBER WERE LATINO?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S RIGHT, AT NINETY, CURRENTLY ON MY LIST. ANGLOS ARE AT EIGHTY, CHINESE ARE APPROXIMATELY THIRTY, NATIVE-AMERICANS ABOUT TWENTY AND I GUESS THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE RANGE.

VAL>> SO, BY FAR, MEXICANS WHO WERE, AT THAT TIME, THERE WAS SOME ISSUE ABOUT WHETHER THEY WERE CITIZENS, WHETHER THEY WERE WHITE, WHETHER THEY HAD ALL THE SAME RIGHTS THAT OTHERS DID.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THAT'S CORRECT. TECHNICALLY, AFTER CALIFORNIA BECOMES A STATE, CITIZENSHIP IS EXTENDED TO ALL MEXICANS AT THAT POINT AND THEY ARE GRANTED CITIZENSHIP. SO THEN THE QUESTION WAS AT THAT TIME, ACCORDING TO THE LEGAL CITIZENS AS FAR AS RACIAL CATEGORIES, ONE HAD TO BE WHITE IN ORDER TO BE A CITIZEN. SO THEY BASICALLY CLASSIFIED ALL LATINOS AS ANGLOS AT THAT POINT FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE. THAT IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF DEALING WITH LATINO HISTORY, IN GENERAL, WHETHER IT'S AN ETHNICITY OR A RACIAL HISTORY OR A CULTURAL HISTORY, WHETHER THESE DISTINCTIONS MATTER. I THINK IN TERMS OF THE HISTORY OF LYNCHING, WHAT IT SHOWS IS THAT IT DOES MATTER. THERE IS THIS WHOLE HISTORY THAT HAS BEEN EVAPORATED NOT THROUGH, I DON'T THINK, ANY GREAT CONSPIRACY, BUT TO THE SIMPLE SORT OF INSENSITIVITY OR DIFFICULTY OF RECOGNIZING DIFFERENT CULTURAL GROUPS.

JESS>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE REAL VALUE OF YOUR BOOK?

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> I THINK THE VALUE WILL BE IN, FIRST OF ALL, CHANGING THE UNDERSTANDING FOR BLACKS AS WELL AS FOR WHITES IN THAT THE DYNAMICS BETWEEN LYNCHING OF THE BLACK-WHITE SORT OF POLEMIC THAT KEEPS EVERYONE IN THESE FIXED SORT OF POSITIONS REALLY HAS TO BREAK DOWN, AT LEAST IN CALIFORNIA WHERE THERE WERE SO MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT SUFFERED. CERTAINLY TEXAS AS WELL. MOST OF THE WESTERN STATES. I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR YET, BUT I SUSPECT THAT THE NUMBERS MIGHT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THEY'RE OFFICIALLY RECORDED.

VAL>> WELL, KEN GONZALES-DAY, PROFESSOR OF ART AT SCRIPPS COLLEGE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR WORK, DIFFICULT THOUGH IT IS. WE THINK IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. WE APPRECIATE YOUR DOING IT FOR US.

KEN GONZALES-DAY>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.